The Road to Battlefield 4: The Ultimate Guide to the BF4 Vehicles

In this new entry in our “Road to Battlefield 4” blog series we roll out the vehicles! Read on and learn how to master the land, air and sea units as our vehicle expert dev tells you about new vehicle types, weaponry customization, and the focus on naval warfare. And of course: how to pimp your ride!

Ever since Wake Island and Battlefield 1942, taking advantage of a wide selection of vehicles has been essential for the all-out war experience in Battlefield. With Battlefield 4, the vehicle gameplay options and customization possibilities are greater than ever, especially with the new emphasis on the hectic Naval Warfare. We now hand over the word to Senior Vehicles Designer Patrick “Posh” O’Shaughnessy for an in-depth look at the development of all the land, air and sea vehicles in Battlefield 4.

BF4 Vehicle Design: A Matter of Personal Choice

There was one basic design philosophy behind vehicles in Battlefield 4, an approach that is found throughout Battlefield’s history: to give players opportunities to make interesting choices and affect the game in a more personalized way. With vehicles, these choices happen when customizing your vehicle’s loadout, or even selecting which vehicle you spawn into.

From an aesthetic point of view we try to make the experience of using the vehicles feel authentic and visceral, while at the same time avoiding unnecessary complexity. In other words: “easy to learn, hard to master”. Our goal is to make them look and feel authentic to their real-world counterparts, but not complex and overbearing.

With all the tweaks, new features and the convenient Test Range, we want to encourage players to try out the land, air, and sea vehicles in Battlefield 4, and of course the customizations that come with them. No matter what type of hardware you prefer, our goal is to turn our vehicles into thrilling tools for you to dominate the Battlefield – in your own way.

Angry Seas: Dynamic Water-based Combat

With Battlefield 4, we’ve put a lot of effort into giving Naval Combat the magnitude it deserves – and with the dynamic weather changes, fighting at sea becomes a constantly changing experience. At sea you get to control both attack craft like the Patrol Boats, and water transport vehicles like the Personal Water Craft, each with their own benefits. The bigger naval units are now basically “tanks on water”, suitable for both attacking targets defending themselves with powerful guns and countermeasures.

There were many challenges with designing the naval units in Battlefield 4. A big one was finding the right loadout for weapons, unlocks and other features for the attack boats. Naval units are unique on the Battlefield due to limited mobility, and that you are physically separated by the shoreline from both teammates and enemies. This is also true for the RHIB and Personal Water Craft, but transport vehicles are sort of disposable as you don’t spend as much time in them. We wanted the attack boats to hold value and have the same gameplay depth as a tank or a helicopter.

Let’s say you’re battling it out for bomb possession in Obliteration Mode and you want to take your team to victory by mastering the sea. One idea is to enter a fast attack craft like the Combat Boat and patrol the coasts of the most intense islands. Heavily armed, these things allow you to deal with light vehicles, infantry and other boats, but also give armored vehicles, jets and helicopters a fight. Now you have the choice of maneuvering the craft, trying to find the most strategic places based on what’s happening in the round, or man the fast 30mm cannon and take out enemy infantry as they rush with the bomb on the mainland. In Conquest, you can also use these mobile gun platforms to support the capturing of bases near the water.

If you want to speed things up at sea, the PWC (Personal Water Craft) is back for Battlefield 4. You might recognize this rapid ride from Battlefield 2: Special Forces and Battlefield: Bad Company 2, and those familiar with the Siege of Shanghai and Paracel Storm maps know the strength of it – swift movements from A to B in naval environments. Also: if you find yourself aboard an RCB patrol boat that’s close to exploding, two PWCs can come to the rescue by acting as escape vehicles. In other words, there’s no need to swim all the way to shore, which makes for non-stop action on the Battlefield.

Battlefield 4 - Paracel Storm 3

Cooperation with your teammates was a high priority when designing the naval units in Battlefield 4. Man the guns on a RHIB Boat and let your teammate steer the vehicle to the heat of the battle.

The Challenges of the Sea

One challenge with developing Battlefield 4’s naval combat was the difficulty to get other players in the vehicle with you. Unlike a tank or jeep, where you are likely close to friendly infantry, players don’t tend to hang out in the open water. And similarly, if you were a passenger in the boat and you wanted to go do something else, you’re pretty much screwed when the captain has taken you 300 meters from shore. Even as a passenger in a transport helicopter you can parachute down safely almost anywhere on a map.

Ultimately it was the transport helicopter that we looked at when solving these problems. The gunner seats of the transport helicopters are one of the most fun places to be in the entire game. So we added those types of weapons for the passengers of the attack boat, and made the vehicle a team spawn point, like the transport helis, to make it easier and more attractive for people to get in the vehicle.

Because the attack boat has more limited options when it comes to what types of enemies to engage, in a large part because of its necessity to be in water, we decided to give it a more varied set of customization options than other vehicles, so that you really can be versatile and engage many different types of targets depending on your choices when building your loadout.

BF4_Screen_03

No matter how powerful the vehicle of your choice is, you will always have a natural enemy equipped with the right gear for taking you down.

We still had the problem of feeling stranded out in the water as a passenger, though. We solved this after thinking back to the Patrol Boats featured in the Battlefield 1942 map Invasion of the Philippines, which could deploy LCRS Rafts when it was sunk. We added a similar feature to the attack boats, allowing any passenger the ability to deploy a Personal Water Carrier from the rear of the boat which you could see in our Siege of Shanghai multiplayer trailer at E3 earlier this year.

Rock-Paper-Scissors Evolved

Letting every type of unit have its natural prey and enemy, the signature rock-paper-scissors gameplay has always been core to our gameplay design. In Battlefield 4, it’s been greatly tweaked and enhanced. We looked over all of the vehicle classes and what their primary role on the Battlefield should be, and also what secondary role would be appropriate. For example, the Mobile Anti-Air Vehicle’s job is pretty obvious. However when you look at its customization options in Battlefield 3, there wasn’t a lot of choice when it came to how you could actually engage airborne enemies.

So in this case we added more ammo options for the primary weapon slot and more types of AA missiles in the secondary weapon slot, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Now we can fine-tune our loadout to gain an edge in different situations. Is it helicopters we’ll encounter more often, or jets? Long range or short? Is there more cover for aircraft on this map or are they out in the open more often? So the biggest tweaks in the rock-paper-scissors gameplay come from what kinds of customization options are now available to each class.

Pimping Your Ride

Before going into battle with your vehicles of war, you’re going to want to make sure that they’re equipped just the way you like them. Battlefield 4 brings several vehicle customization options for you to experiment with, and this is done in a menu accessible before each round. Let’s say you want to customize the features of your main battle tanks. When picking your primary weapon you’re faced with the choice of a 120MM Armor Piercing Shell or a High Explosive Shell. The former is reasonably fast and deals a good amount of direct damage, but the latter spells heavy damage against armored targets, at the cost of a slower flight speed of the shells. As always, it’s a matter of personal taste and what kind of resistance you expect on the Battlefield.

But vehicle customization is also about camos and looking good on the Battlefield – and choosing the right camouflage for the right map environment can even be a life-saver. There are many different color sets and patterns of camo, any combination of which are available to vehicles, weapons and soldiers. The Adaptive Camo is a color pattern that is picked on a level-by-level basis, which is tweaked to match the environment of whatever level you are playing on.

E3_MP_02

Customization of the vehicles ties in to your expectations and experiences of the Battlefield. It’s up to you to decide what countermeasures and optics your tanks will be better off with.

The Freedom of Customization

In Battlefield 3 there were three vehicle customization slots; Secondary Weapons, Gadgets and Upgrades. In Battlefield 4 we’ve added customization options for the primary weapon slot, and split gadgets up into two new slots, Optics and Countermeasures. Unlocks for Optics and Countermeasures shared the same customization slot in Battlefield 3, which wasn’t optimal when it came to tanks. When you had to choose between optics modes and a protective countermeasure, the countermeasure is sort of a no-brainer, which takes player’s control out of that choice. So adding dedicated countermeasure and optic slots removes that problem and adds more customization options. Now tanks have more countermeasure options and they can be used at the same time as any optics unlock.

Alongside Battlefield 3’s secondary weapon slot unlocks, we now have customization for the primary slot as well, including different ammo types and in some cases different weapon mechanics. Additionally, like helicopter gunners in Battlefield 3, tank remote gun stations now have their own optics slot and an upgrade slot as well, including functions like a laser designator and short-range incendiary grenades.

Having all these customization options available will not only add longevity to the game, it will make your time on the Battlefield personal and deep. We truly hope and suspect you will enjoy figuring out what setup is right for you, for all the specific scenarios.

Critical Hit! (and How to Recover from It)

We’ve also applied some changes to the way that vehicles become disabled and how they recover. In Battlefield 3 your vehicle became disabled when its total health was depleted by a certain amount, rendering you basically immobile and in need of an Engineer to get it back up and running, otherwise the vehicle would burn away and explode. This changed a lot about vehicle combat in Battlefield for the better, but there were still some things about the system we didn’t like, based on how players reacted. Primarily, it always felt like you had to abandon the vehicle when becoming disabled, even though there’s always the possibility of still winning the fight. And if there’s no Engineer nearby, the vehicle is most likely going to explode anyway, so there’s not a lot of reason to stay in the vehicle.

So in Battlefield 4 we’ve added a new mechanic we call the Critical Hit. Anytime a vehicle takes a hit, we check the amount of final damage that was dealt, after the angle and zone checks. If the damage was high enough, it’s a Critical Hit, and the vehicle acts much like they did in Battlefield 3, losing power in tanks or having loss of control in aircraft – but this effect is temporary, and the and the pilot/driver regains control after a few seconds.

The critical hit damage threshold is carefully tweaked alongside the damage zones and glancing-hit scaling on each vehicle, in a way that promotes playing smart as both a vehicle operator, and in an anti-vehicle role. This new concept of temporary critical hits means that we keep the sense of impending danger that a damaged vehicle brings – while still allowing for brave drivers to regain control and keep fighting.

Battlefield 4 - Paracel Storm_6_Gamestop

Piloting water-based vehicles will challenge you to adapt to stronger waves as the weather changes take effect on certain levels.

Hit’em Where it Hurts: Mastering Vehicle Damage

Key to taking down enemy vehicles in Battlefield 4 is of course to know the most effective ways to damage them. The vehicle damage systems are similar to those in Battlefield 3 but we’ve balanced and fine-tuned it and fixed some problems. Take MBTs (Main Battle Tanks) for instance. Just like in Battlefield 3, they have the strongest armor of any combat vehicle in the game, but only in the front of the vehicle, while the back of the MBT has the weakest armor of any combat vehicle. Then on the sides they have standard armor, the same as the other tanks have all around.

Even though the MBT is the only tank with strong and weak spots like this, it still matters how you approach any tank with anti-tank weapons. A straight shot, perpendicular to the face of the vehicle where the impact occurs, will deal the most damage. A shot at a more “glancing” angle will deal less damage. So steady aim, ambushing and flanking heavy vehicles is the key to taking them down.

In Battlefield 4 we’ve also added a new “top” zone to all of the combat-oriented tanks, which also takes into account at what angle the impact has occurred. The handheld, and the vehicle-based laser guided missiles will all naturally achieve a devastating top-attack hit when responding to teammates laser-designated targets. You can also achieve this with an RPG if you are firing from the right position, like a strategic hiding place on a rooftop or by paradropping from above.

Battlefield 4 - Paracel Storm 1

Air units now have more clearly defined roles on the Battlefield, to emphasize their respective strenghts.

Take to the Skies: Unique Air Combat Roles

It wouldn’t be Battlefield without the ability to get into a jet or helicopter and help out your team from above. One challenge we faced when tweaking the airborne vehicles in Battlefield 4 was to clearly define their roles.

For instance: in Battlefield 3, Fighter Jets and Attack Jets were fairly homogenous and shared the same unlocks. They were both practically the same class, with few differences. In Battlefield 4, we’ve updated the Fighter Jet class to Stealth Jets with two new vehicles not present in Battlefield before (including the Chinese J-20), and their customization options now focus on air-to-air fighting. Attack Jets now have their own set of unlocks which focus on air-to-ground capabilities.

As for helicopters, the scout, transport and attack helicopters return and their unique roles are also defined in different ways. The scout helicopter is faster and more agile in Battlefield 4 and works well against infantry and light vehicles, and the attack helicopter can easily take out armored vehicles with the co-operation of a skilled co-pilot. The transport helicopter is, as always, the ultimate squad team play vehicle. Piloting the helicopters can perhaps be somewhat of a challenge, but is also very rewarding for those who dare take to the sky. And of course, you’ll always have the new Test Range to perfect your flying skills in, before taking on the all-out war.

Get Behind the Wheel

Come early October, when the exclusive and open Battlefield 4 beta kicks off, you’ll be able to try out the wide range of vehicles and all their customizations yourself. We hope you will find the Battlefield 4 vehicles better than ever, and that you enjoy that chaotic feeling of all-out war that comes with them.

Until then, why not give us your comments and thoughts on this blog post. Let us also know what you think about the upcoming vehicles in our poll below and stay tuned for more The Road to Battlefield 4!

THE DEPICTION OF ANY WEAPONS OR VEHICLE IN THIS GAME DOES NOT INDICATE AFFILIATION, SPONSORSHIP OR ENDORSEMENT BY ANY WEAPON OR VEHICLE MANUFACTURER.

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  • drowzy1358 10.19.13 at 06:30

    i wish the transport heli would have some upgrades like air radar or ecm for example

  • Tough Guys R us 10.18.13 at 23:23

    i couldnt find it in the comments….are there going to be less vehicles on the 360?

  • ll anders ll 09.30.13 at 15:54

    The vehicle training area sounds like a great idea. DICE could you please also add the ability to quickly talk to the pilot of a vehicle when you’re a passenger? If you’re not in the same squad it’s incredibly frustrating as a helicopter gunner to watch your pilot aimlessly try to take out jets while the enemy attack chopper is coming up behind you .

    Completely agree that something needs to be done about jet-ramming. It ruins helicopter gameplay on some maps. Maybe just have jets explode when impacting another vehicle but leave the other vehicle untouched? (Jets can avoid everything else easily).

  • xCxRxOxWx 09.26.13 at 01:34

    Will the transport helicopter have more unlocks? I like one person’s idea that the co-pilot should have soflam as an unlock, or perhaps the ability to take over control of the chopper if the main pilot gets shot out without having to switch seats. Perhaps different ammo and optic unlocks for the side turrets as well, ie; anti-infantry vs anti-vehicle. Would rocket pods with limited ammo be an option or just to over powered? I also like the idea that the transport pilot should get spawn points from all team mates and not just squad mates, considering it is a critical spawn point. Someone who stays alive all map and is essential to the victory of the game shouldn’t be at the bottom of the points board. Punishing someone for being a great team mate seems counter to everything battlefield is.
    P.S. Will there be BFBC2 destruction? I miss being able to level whole towns.

    • xCxRxOxWx 09.26.13 at 01:39

      Final idea: what about drop lines from the transport chopper? Pilot comes in and hovers 50ft above ground, ropes drop out and everyone slides down. Would look epic and could make for a nice(and more realistic) maneuver instead of flyby para-drops where you risk being too low for the parachute to deploy.

      • ArmoredBeast479 09.29.13 at 23:39

        That would be epic

      • HiImBarryScott 09.30.13 at 14:02

        It would be epic, however it would make the chopper extremely vunerable to RPG/SMAW attacks. So actually it would be a bad idea in terms of gameplay.

    • drowzy1358 10.19.13 at 06:34

      dude all you said would be awesome to have on the transport heli… i hate just flying that thing around being that guy helping out the team and barely get rewarded for it…

  • Yoshidave 09.22.13 at 04:08

    I’ve noticed that Engineer class in BF3 is overrepresented. If you are using a vehicle it really doesn’t make sense to be any other class. My Engineer kits always progress faster than the rest because if this. Lots of times you’ll fight a whole team of them. I think that each class could have a unique ability when operating vehicles (or sitting in any seat). For instance, Assault has less or no chance of critial hit taken in vehicle (I think critical hit concept is very cool), Engineer can repair, Support has unlimited ammo (assuming limited ammo for vehicles), and recon has proximity scan. This way the teams will be more diverse than just squads of all Enginners.

    Also, if you’re going to grant unlimited ammo for vehicles, using their weapons shouldn’t count against your accuracy rating. Maybe I just like shooting the buildings up, okay?

    I think Humvee could be customized (HMG/grenade launcher/TOW/SAM)

    Transport chopper should have copilot seat for spotting like scout heli.

    Adaptive camo option is very cool. I hope everyone uses it. I also hope custom camo doesn’t mean ppl running around with pink/yellow zebra striped weapons.

    And I know you prob don’t like this, but simple mod kits for console would be terrific. Choose which vehicles spawn on map and which checkpoint.

    Sorry to see mortar go. Maybe make it fixed emplacement scattered around board like TOW? Why no fixed MG/grenade launcher emplacements?

    Agree with chaoslink on jetram and stealing vehicles, but I don’t know what you could do about it.

    If you make a CQC expansion, the maps shouldn’t limit room size so they can be rotated in with any other maps on a server. Yeah, it’ll get crowded. Crowded and crazy. but I won’t have to switch servers just to play a litle CQC infantry only.

    • ArmoredBeast479 09.29.13 at 23:47

      if you watch some gameplay on parcel storm you sometimes see someone use a mg emplacement

  • wWaAVve 09.19.13 at 04:28

    This happened tonight on a deep blue night map with stars and a full moon called Death Valley. .
    The Enemy sniper was near a conquest flag, very high above in a tower scaffolding over a building somewhere hidden in the distance.
    A bullet whizzed past my ear and I quickly jumped behind a rock.
    I only had the RPG launcher left and I kept shooting it up the tower to find my range and where it seemed the sniper shots were coming from, whizzing by my ear, constantly ducking behind the rock as my vision kept blurring, the glow of the rocket trail ending in a loud SMASH.
    It seemed like a one-minute shootout between sniper gun shots and rockets, which have no scope just small explosions in the distance to help you judge your shots.
    Finally I aimed my RPG to where I last judged the sniper tracer from and connected, reading the glowing words across my screen “enemy has been killed”
    I then proceeded to take the flag point.

  • killjoy5541 09.18.13 at 16:42

    DICE, can you please put in RPG Cages on the tanks, and make them functional? In BF3 I believe that they were on the Abrams, but they where purely cosmetic. And limited main gun and explosive ordnance in vehicles would be a cool setting in the game, especially for hardcore modes and even normal modes, it would also keep things more balanced. Also, some helicopters and jets have DIRCM IR countermeasures, which have the same purpose as flares, but it jams IR signatures. I think this, paired with limited munitions, would be a great balancing technique.

  • Chaoslink11 09.17.13 at 03:30

    Vehicle stealing also should me managed somehow. A player who bails from their tank and allows the enemy to steal it should suffer the loss of that tank to the enemy, but a team who just flies into the enemy spawn and steals choppers shouldn’t get away with an extra heli. maybe automated AA defenses with limited range that protect the deployment area only? to keep teams from stealing/destroying unoccupied vehicles in the enemy team’s deployment. I also feel there should be more maps with only one capturable airfield or even just a helipad like on wake island or Sharqi or any of the 1943 maps. that way the ground game determines who controls the skies and keeps it that way, while allowing players to focus on supporting the ground game with those air vehicles instead of jets only focusing on other jets.

    And for jets in particular, something needs to be done about two things, firstly the circle jerk… two jets should not always end up flying in circles the entire game trying to shoot one another down. I know there are ways to win at that, but the whole situation should be avoided in some way, like how F35s simply couldn’t turn like that but had hovering, faster acceleration and speeds to compensate.
    and secondly, the jet ram. It just isn’t fun or realistic for a multi million dollar piece of advanced military hardware to be treated like a medieval battering ram. whether some sort of in-game method prevents a player who crashes a jet into another air vehicle from getting into another jet for a set duration, possibly the rest of the game, or a repeating offender just doesn’t destroy or damage anyone but himself, regardless I bet there are hundreds of players out there that agree, DICE, you need to do something about this.

    • xCxRxOxWx 09.26.13 at 01:26

      What about negative points? If you collide with another air vehicle with you either in it(jet), or within 3 seconds of you bailing, you lose 500 points. Vehicle stealing(primarily air) can be managed with team players. If you have someone manning your anti-air gun you should be able to prevent it from happening. Also when no one is getting in the vehicles, then they deserve to be stolen imo.

  • Chaoslink11 09.17.13 at 03:17

    This being a vehicle portion anyways, I have to express one thing that I feel BF3 needed especially with the release of armored kill, More vehicle diversity with the teams. Not only should the Abrams tank have some advantages and disadvantages from say the T90, both teams should not have the exact same amount of vehicle spawns for each vehicle type Try giving the Russian spawn say two Tunguskas and a Z11W while the Americans get a Support heli and an attack heli but only one LAV AD or maybe just the Humvee with the AA launcher keep it diverse though as balanced as can be. The biggest thing would be tank destroyers. Ever play the console version? ever actually destroy a TANK with a tank destroyer? doubt it unless it was the ONE MBT spawn in Tank Supiriority. I also feel that there should be a little more obvious differences when it comes to speed and maneuverability between these vehicles as well as damage output (possibly higher rear armor modifiers for Tank destroyers on the rear on MBT’s but less frontal dmg so that a tank destroyer can’t stand toe to toe with and MBT? Force vehicle teamwork where two MBT’s go face to face while the destroyers flank? Just thoughts that I figure will diversify gameplay and help make battlefield stand out even better from the point and click games to ones where a team half the size of the other could win every time should the smaller team work together really well.
    I understand that to actually get people to buy the DLC and make it special, you can’t just make an update for the old maps as well including the new vehicles, but some new vehicles from AK should have made appearances in Aftermath or End Game. If you don’t want people to just buy selective DLCs just make it so if you don’t have the DLC that released the new vehicle initially, you get no customization options for it. that way everyone who does have the DLC and who enjoyed those new vehicles in that DLC can still enjoy them on future maps as well.

  • XGN DR4KE 09.17.13 at 01:26

    Is there going to be better flight capabilities because in BF3 it was easy for people to stay on your tail and they can tell what your going to do next ITS REALY ANNOYING

  • Xida 09.16.13 at 14:03

    Squad spawning needs to be fixed.
    Why?
    Because it unbalances the game.

    The game becomes a SPAWNATHON

    Spawning should not be used as a tactic unless there is reasonable logic. It’s ok to spawn in base, vehicles, radio beacons or flags.
    Spawning on any squad mate is totally beyond remotely realistic and destroys the flow of the game (squad leader only spawn makes a little more sense). There needs to be a reasonable expectation of a front.
    If friendly players are constantly moving up from the rear from their base spawn it helps to reinforce the rear and the player’s up front can focus on the enemy in front instead of watching the back all the time.
    Players should not be able to spawn anywhere where their squad mates are. Enemies appear out of thin air all over the battlefield which does not enhance the game it simply makes it chaotic and rather stupid.
    For example in conquest, if your team holds every flag you can have up to 5 flag spawn locations plus 3 one for each squad mate plus your base. So a total of 9 spawn points. This is ridiculous!
    It is imperative to have a front! I cannot stress that enough. In the very least there needs to be a negative to squad spawning (aside from being killed straight away – that just increases the frustration).
    Here are some ideas on how to fix the problem:
    (1) squad spawning only works when 2 or more squad mates (or team mates) are within 10-15 metres of each other. This encourages the squad to stick together and provides the squad with some centralization.
    (2) squad leader spawn only set to default whereby the squad leader is the player with the most points (usually not a sniper). Or points scored from long range headshots do not count toward the squad leader selection.
    (3) players use a radio button to call for reinforcements which lasts 10 seconds. Squad mates can then spawn on the player however the radio signal temporally gives away the players position to the enemy.
    (4) when joining a game there are two options: put me in a squad or not. There needs to be a third option: “put me in a squad and elect me squad leader”. This ensures player’s who want to be squad leader can take the role willingly instead of random assignment. If two or more players elect to be squad leader then randomly assign it to one of them. ie someone who does not want to be squad leader is not assigned to the role.
    (5) immediately after death, allow players to spawn almost instantly in their team’s base spawn location without having to watch the killcam, so long as they don’t change their load out (also referred to as ‘quick spawn’.)
    (6) Players can always spawn on their squad leader, but only on their squad mates when a squad mate is near another team/squad mate or inside a vehicle. This would encourage players to stick together and stop the lone flanker from spawning his 3 squad mates behind enemy lines.

    Nothing is more frustrating than being spawn camped, and squad spawning makes the whole thing worse.
    When players spawn into the game there should be an expectation of a front. Don’t get me wrong – its ok for players to outflank etc but NOT to then multiply behind enemy lines. Thus is very very wrong.
    For conquest squad spawning is not required and battlefield worked fine before its creation. In rush , the maps need redesign so the objectives are half way between the attackers and defenders with the defenders spawning closer to the objectives for the first 15 seconds of deployment..
    I want to finish by saying battlefield was great until squad spawning. Please fix ASAP.
    BTW: please do not take this post to mean I hate battlefield 3. Rather it is positive criticism. I loved battlefield 1942 because when you captured a flag it was a lifeline away from your base. Squad spawning has ruined that experience, and in my opinion ruined the battlefield franchise. The reason I play battlefield still is because its other features go some way to compensating for the issues around squad spawning (mentioned above).

    So please Dice, look deep into your heart and search for what you know is true. You know squad spawning is wrong, I know, I feel it and I am sure I am not the only one…..

    Thank you.

    • Elitesoldier3500 09.16.13 at 23:20

      I feel the same why, like in metro…. your fighting for bravo and out of no ware you have 1 to 3 squads that come from behind and pretty much trap your whole team.

    • Triemo 09.17.13 at 01:08

      I wouldn’t mind if squad spawning was fixed the way you described. But there need to be a lot more changes you didn’t mention. For example if you are playing conquest and you have no flags captured and every teammate is spawning in the base waiting years for a vehicle to spawn because in BF 3 are not enough vehicles for every team member. Then you would have to walk all the way to the first flag with your entire squad. On the way you would be killed by a hostile sniper because there is almost no cover and you are only running and jumping all along the way. Your anger and your frustration would reach a new level I think.
      However if squad spawning was possible you could have the comfort to spawn by one of your squad members who was lucky enough to jump and run near the flags. So in general you are able to shot your way step by step to your next object without starting again at your base where you were in the first place. Eventually if your team is any good you would capture the damn flag.
      That’s why your fix would need a lot more vehicles in the base and/or shorter distances from your base to the flags (base rape warning!!!) and/or another way to reach the first flags without running half an hour and being defenseless shot.
      This would only be one of many reasons for me to hate your fixed Battlefield. And please don’t take any of this personally.

    • Chaoslink11 09.17.13 at 01:54

      While I also agree almost completely with most of your ideas on this, I feel at least some of your ‘fixes’ would be doing /too/ much and just need fixing later. How many times have you joined a game specifically because it had room for you and your friends just to find that the only reason why there was enough room was because one team was stuck in their spawn and half of everyone had quit? Spawn traps kill servers and if no one can manage to be the one to get out and spawn friends to take the battle back to the rest of the map DICE worked so hard to make, you end up with a full team beating back half a team who probably have all taken to sniping. The key to fixing the spawn issue I feel can only be answered by an approach inspired by Halo’s multiplayer. This being that there would be restrictions not on who/where you can spawn on your mates, but when.
      First, we all have had that instance where you run up on a guy who is by himself and dump 15 of your 30 rounds into him, but as you do, one or more of his mates spawns on him. Maybe you use your other 15 rounds to take care of that guy, but another spawns on him? You end up dying just because here are too many, one just revives all the guys you just laid out, or (due to DICE adding in spawn protection in BF3) a ‘sponge’ spawns on the first guy and soaks up your clip without even taking damage. This should all sound familiar all too well. And for one, spawn protection needs to go, don’t like dying right as you spawn? Spawn somewhere safer… YOU take that risk by squad spawning YOU should have to pay the price for a bad decision.
      To fix the spawning issue interfereing with direct gameplay though I think it would make sense to design a squad spawning system that would prevent players from spawning on a squadmate who meets any of the following:
      1. Firing/reloading his weapon. This would indicate that this player is actively engaged in combat and his squadmate spawning on him would change the flow/outcome of that engagement in many ways from distracting the opposing team with more targets or making them use more ammo to changing the balance of numbers.
      2. If the player is in enemy territory/proximity. If enemies are too close (each map could possibly have the distance vary depending on how large/confined it is) or if the player is taking enemy territory such as objectives or even the gap between the deployment and the closest objective to it. This essentially means the out of bounds area around a team’s deployment needs to be enough that the attackers with assault rifles and carbines will be ineffective at the spawntrap boundry line. (no need to allow a team spawntrapping the other to keep doing it with ease nor speed up how quickly an objective is taken simply because a player clicked “spawn”). It also breaks rush games when defenders can’t spawn on the guy 20 meters ahead of the objective while attackers can. I understand the purpose of this, but the way it is in BF3 is too much, there needs to be a line where attackers can’t spawn on each other /before/ the MCOMs and the defender’s line needs to be pushed up slightly. (Its just game-breaking when 5 attackers bum-rush an MCOM and only one survives to spawn his whole team. They should either have to risk defending solo, or fall back and regroup to try again.) I also believe that using this “proximity” idea, conquest flag spawns should also be affected allowing a squad or two to ‘lock down’ an objective while taking it if they’re spread out over the whole thing. This would encourage stronger team-based gameplay while preventing those moments where you get cut by the guy who spawned 8 feet behind you. This would also keep the front moving, forcing the defending team to either move for the defense or abandon the objective preventing players from relying on spawning on the objective being lost to defend and having to fight harder to get to them.
      3. If the player is supressed/under fire. This would prevent those situations where a sniper is trying to pick off a guy and his friends spawn to distract him or take him out with numbers. This also would add to the point of supression, no many LMGs tend to keep shooting once the enemy is behind a rock or tree since theres no kill to be earned. Also being supressed/under fire (under fire referring to the lack of smaller arms no longer supressing) indicated combat.
      4. The player is being knifed. This may seem too small a window, but many times I’ve died just because someone spawned while I was stealing some tags. I also indicate this even though it would already violate the proximity portion above in case of a possible ‘bug’ in the process. (Maybe the knife animation would affect the proximity spawn prevention)
      5. A short period of time /after/ any of these things. This would not only prevent flickering (a teammate’s spawn from flickering on/off on his squad’s spawn screen, as well as preventing the whole squad from spawning immediately after an engagement. (I’ve seen it hundreds of times while watching the killcam as a medic spawns on the guy who just laid me out and revives everyone I did just kill before dying meaning I essentially did nothing. This might have to be messed with when it comes to implementing as it would need testing to see just how long the duration should last in practice on the battlefield.
      There are probably things here that would need o be tinkered with, but overall I feel it is at least a strong basis that could be used to help balance the squad spawning mechanic. I feel it enhances the game at times, but hinders it in others. As with all things, finding that ideal balance is key and I feel that so long as squads can only spawn during the calm points of the battle, it should be balanced enough to improve the game and prevent timed squad spawns from being used as a tactic (players waiting to spawn until one of their mates gets onto the MCOM etc)

  • Aggression_Meph 09.16.13 at 08:55

    what I’d like to see is Helicopters become easier to drive – can barely keep the damn things in the air as it is

  • drummachine2781 09.15.13 at 21:07

    Please fix the countermeasures for air vehicles, especially jets. It is your only defense against heat seekers and an army of iglas/stingers and most of the time they still go through your flares/ecm. Also I think you should only be able to be revived once or twice max. I love the realism of the battlefield series but someone getting rambo revived 10 times in a row is a bit to much. I love how in bf4 you can’t get revived after being knifed that will be a great addition. Those would be a couple of tweaks I would like to see to make battlefield even better than it already is AND PLEASE DON’T GIVE ADMINS THE ABILITY TO PLAY GOD IN THIS ONE

    • Elitesoldier3500 09.16.13 at 23:32

      I agree in every way.. you get one flare. If you get double teamed your screwed! A heat seeking missile does half damage while a damn personal air defense missile is a one shot disable… One other thing I hate, is the scout helicopter miniguns do too much damage to tanks and light armored tank….. Same goes with the transport helicopter miniguns!

    • XGN DR4KE 09.17.13 at 01:24

      I dont realy see admins playing god because they have restrictions too

      • Chaoslink11 09.17.13 at 03:48

        The whole rent a sever needs a bit of a revamp. Players need to realize when DICE said make your own rules, it didn’t mean tell people what you can or can’t do or be banned, and if it did, DICE, change your mind… Please! Battlefield 3 has been out an eternity or at least like two years and theres probably over a hundred thousand Colonel 100s over all platforms, not to mention its perfectly reasonably for players who don’t have the money for every new game or who don’t want a variety to have hit Col. 100 by now playing a reasonable amount of time a week, trust me, it doesn’t take that long esp. if you use double exp weekends. You can gain like 3 colonel stars in just a handful of hours if you actually /do/ stuff other than snipe all game. I’m tired of being banned from servers just because I don’t play the lesser shooters like CoD or TC GR or others, those games have their strong points I guess… except maybe CoD’s MP since its too simple for how popular it is… I play Battlefield for its amazing experience and most of all LARGE maps… I mean what is a sniper rifle for in CoD anyways? I think the only game that has DICE beat is the flashpoints/ARMA series, but thats what they’re after is scale and realism. When it comes to other player made rules, I guess it’d make sense to just have options to turn off the ability to use certain guns or items that admin thinks is OP but make it unranked and in a completely different section of the server browsers.

    • Chaoslink11 09.17.13 at 02:09

      Vehicle countermeasures might need tweaking when it comes to reliability, but in reality I feel the personal anti-air missiles are all that need changing. Players need to have stingers/Iglas for air defense but they should not spell certain death for anything hey hit, and a player should not be able to just stand on an ammo crate and restock them indefinately. I feel ammo crates should be more limited as they were with BF3′s release. I believe at release they restocked only 7 items before being consumed which was okay for awhile but I feel 7 singers is still a bit much. I think keeping them with a limited amount of charges is good, but altering the “cost” for certain items (primarily explosives) is needed. Allow a crate to supply 15 times, but each explosive takes 3 charges. Also, limit the amount of ammo crates allowed. (Ideally I think it’d be best to make it like it was in BF2 where you had only a few, but could just hold them in hand for infinite uses) Limits on crates would allow opposing teams to have a purpose in destroying an enemy crate (maybe even a few points for doing so?) as well as stopping the constant flow of crates out the side of helicopters by that one guy who apparently has nothing better to do than drop supplies out the side every 5 seconds. It just breaks the game to have one small box contain an infinite supply of missiles to one player all game long. It also adds room to have in game crates on objectives that resupply a support’s (assuming that class still has the ammo) ammo crates without restocking everyone (just to keep a purpose to having portable ammo crates)

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