USAS 12 Frag Rounds: Tale of the Tape

Following up on his last “Inside DICE” post, Alan Kertz returns with the inside story on the much discussed Battlefield 3 USAS 12 shotgun and FRAG rounds: Where the inspiration came from, how it was balanced shortly after launch, and how we’re rebalancing it based on community feedback.

I often get the question “who thought 12g FRAG rounds were a good idea?” Well, that would be me. 12 gauge FRAG rounds stem from two places. First, like nearly everything in Battlefield, FRAG rounds are inspired by an authentic shotgun ammunition (developed for military use and tested by the USMC). A FRAG round is a 19mm High Explosive round, making it of a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18!

The second inspiration comes from an Easter Egg weapon for developers in Battlefield: Bad Company 2. The developers (or anyone who picked up their kit) could fire 12g FRAG rounds, with a similar ballistic performance as a standard shotgun slug, though slower. So popular was the round with developers and players alike that the FRAG round was made an unlockable ammo type for shotguns in Battlefield 3.

The addition of suppression in Battlefield 3 as a gameplay mechanic gave 12g FRAG rounds a clear target design. FRAG rounds would allow players with shot guns a round with limited combat effectiveness but the capability to harass and suppress opponents at longer distances. It almost worked.

Straight out of the gate, as players ranked up a bit of fun was had with FRAG rounds in the first unlockable shotgun, the 870. As players continued to rank up, the FRAG rounds were put to the test in the semi-automatic shotguns, with greater but still limited success. Enter the USAS-12. Arguably the FRAG round was developed primarily for combat shotguns, especially automatic weapons capable of quickly putting multiple rounds on target, since each round is of limited damage itself. It was clear that in order to remain balanced, and despite it not being completely authentic, the automatic and semi-automatic shotguns would need to have their own version of the FRAG round. It was quickly patched in, for balance.

And so it seemed that all was well again, at least for a time. The FRAG rounds are an interesting bit of study, statistically speaking. On the PC, USAS-12 kills account for just 1.8% of all kills (all ammo types are included in that figure, not just FRAG rounds). On the PS3 that number climbs to just over 3% and on Xbox 360 it climbs to nearly 4%. This is a unique behavior, as not only are the FRAG rounds and the USAS identical on all three platforms, but only the stats for USAS-12 and 870 vary so drastically between platforms. Furthermore, the 870 is most popular on PC and then drops in the same order of PS3 and 360. I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions as to why this is, though I certainly have my suspicions. Statistically, there is a worst case scenario of dying from the USAS-12 1 out of every 25 deaths.

It’s important for us to fine-tune shotgun balancing at close range, especially with the upcoming expansion pack Battlefield 3: Close Quarters this June.

So why does it feel so frequent? Primarily, the FRAG rounds are most effective in Battlefield 3 exactly where they would be in real life: close quarters, urban combat. When broken down by map and mode, the USAS-12 is clearly more popular in TDM and CQB maps like Grand Bazaar and Operation Metro. Players in those modes are more likely to be killed by FRAG rounds than players who run around on Kharg Island Conquest.

And what do I plan to do about it? Well, one very little, but very effective change will take place in the near future. On all other shotguns, using FRAG rounds reduces the effective rate of fire. For semiautomatic shotguns this rate drops from 200-220 rounds per minute to 180rpm, a 10% reduction. The USAS simply did not have this reduction in place. As of the next update, it will have its 275rpm reduced significantly to 200rpm. I’m actually a bit worried it’s too much, and I’m eager to hear how players react to the change.

Shotguns are easily the most difficult weapons to balance in Battlefield. Given the wide range of combat distances in Battlefield 3, shotguns must feel powerful up close, without being over powered, and weak at medium distance without being under powered. Furthermore, each map has a unique combat distance feeling, yet the performance of the weapons must feel consistent. The relatively random nature of pellet spread, or FRAG round accuracy, makes this especially difficult. The update also includes some more minor tweaks to try and help players consistently identify the effective range of their shotgun by reducing the random factors involved.

Rest assured, this won’t be the last update for balance issues in Battlefield 3. I’ll be monitoring the situation closely, and working directly with the team to make additional updates and tweaks to keep the Battlefield balanced. Let me know what you think of the latest balancing tweaks here in the comments section on the blog.

Alan Kertz
Core Gameplay Designer

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  • DUTCH x K1LL3R 03.31.12 at 00:17

    nice you let us know you are going to patch this FINALLY. when does the XBOX 360 patch come out DICE?

  • ProLoser1 03.31.12 at 00:06

    Maybe it could be always good to restrict ammo regen, i mean you get a support with the USAS and they just get through the whole game constantly refueling himself running and gunning through the whole map

  • ICrack The SkyI 03.30.12 at 23:33

    Great Dice! We feel really reassured that you’re going to continue patching the game. It only took what, 6 months to release the second patch? And some of the patch notes are just flat out lies. You need to get away from EA. Dice is obviously talented, but clearly EA is rushing you too much out of the gate, and you’re making mistakes that are proving to be difficult to fix later on.

  • zanychelly 03.30.12 at 23:27

    Really ? These rounds has almost the same amout of damage as a F18 rounds?? So WHY not equip the troops on the frontlines in afeghanistan with that??
    You really want us to believe that? tell us another story, that one is bad one

    • ShadowHawk148 04.03.12 at 16:24

      For one reason, it’s goddamn expensive

  • DA B0FF 03.30.12 at 23:05

    Surely the Frag rounds should do the least damage if their function is to suppress?

    • Neferata 03.30.12 at 23:47

      I think the same thing. Slugs are used for range flechette for tearing up targets and buckshot for general purpose.

  • IceCold Snowman 03.30.12 at 23:00

    My theory to the FRAG round issue. (I do not use them, I find them ineffective in my style of play. I am a fan of pump action shotguns so I live and die with my 870 MCS. I have a rare moment when I switch from buck-shots to flachette rounds.)

    The theory: There are two sides to a coin, yeah FRAG rounds may need and may have needed some fine tuning. This is a multiplayer game, testing can only bring to light so many issues, MILLIONS of people doing god only knows how many things at once can bring out an unthinkable amount of information. So with this in mind, everyone think about it, is it a game play tech issue only or is it a player-abuse issue?

    It can be said about many online games, “It didn’t ruin the game or destroy it, people did.” Could this be more of the case?

    I hate automatic shotguns. Its just a personal fact about myself. I also do not like FRAG rounds. Remove them from the game? Nah, you shouldn’t need to, I would hope. Could the issue be fix with removing it as round for the USAS and the other FULL auto shotgun the MK? I think that could solve a lot problems people have. I have been on the receiving end where you have 6 players rolling around with this kit and just plowing through teams and destroying you and your spawn, but I have also shown them why a 870 buckshot is to be feared and why skill will always win a gun fight.

    I have more issue with this small but VERY inconvenient fact. Why can’t we throw grenades through windows? You know breaking them? DICE please explain this. I have throw MANY a grenades only to have it bounce back at me, and better yet, why does the window stop a RPG or SMAW rocket at close distance? I swear they can be shoot by bullets and knifed, but the none above mentioned? What the hell? Also the hell can we not climb over certain things, every time on Operation Metro when attacking in rush, when live the subway the building on the right, those little black railings? Impossible to jump over a few specific ones, its just annoying in a pinch. On that defending side? That last point of the map, if you run up the stairs on the far right, and try the same on similar railings, same thing. It drives me NUTS. Another issue I have is Javelins that home in on a lazed target in the air and they circle around it in the air furiously and then, poof. Miss. Not out ran or hit a rock. Just poof like two feet behind it blows up and misses. I may be missing something here but what is that all about?

    I’ve played PC a lot, but I own an XBOX and that is my main. Fact of life here, I do not have money for a PC build at this time. One day I will make the jump, till then I’ll mooch off my cousin for free. I have a slightly more overshadowed to us players on consoles. On PC players can put out a messaged to their whole team, you know like someone asks for someone to laze a target publicly. I LOVED it. Can we get that on consoles somehow? I mean put up a preset list of requests for things like “Laze Ground Vehicles” “Laze Air Vehicles” “Laser is up for Javelins” A way to put out the word to a whole team not just your squad. How about remapping the “Back” and “Select” buttons so went you hold them you pull up a list such as this? Screw the score board feature, it not all that important out on the field. Look at it from the spawn or when you pause the menu.

    This is all I got at the moment on me. Just my thoughts and my input. Before you go on a yell back, take a moment breathe and read slowly. It’s just my side/view of things. Maybe you end up playing worse people, maybe better people, maybe people who PTFO. I don’t always get that lucky.

  • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:44

    No offence to Demize99, by the way; I merely meant “dead end blog post” as in this is likely not going to get as much traffic as, say, new DLC details or significant patch announcements.

    • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:45

      And now the dodgy reply system has done me in. /wrists

  • harr0w 03.30.12 at 22:16

    Moot point because the new patch has killed the game. the assault class may as well not be there. The balancing is pathetic. Vehicles die so easily now its ridiculous 1to 2 rpgs to kill a tank no fucking way same goes for the rest. good to see damage improvements to sniper rifles that maybe one thing they did right this patch. so as of this moment i wont be supporting dice until the rectify the assault class and its weapons because they were fine before( dont fix what isnt broken). So its going to be a game full of snipers and engineers brilliant. the time and efforts thousands of players have put in to be repaid by fucking up the classes and weapons is an out rage you(dice) are basically telling me how you want me to play the game i paid for which is not fucking on. When you should of been putting efforts into changing the super unrealistic mortars and sniper glint. instead you fuck over a mass majority of vet playersplayers for the whingy little 15 year old codites. congratulations you just lost a fan.

    • F1leUrC0mplaint 03.30.12 at 22:35

      lol

    • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:42

      Although I agree with a lot of what you had to say, I have to point out that they don’t need real battlefield veterans stamping on the ground with a ‘final’ comment on some dead end blog post and leaving.. What they do need is for us to band together, stand up and announce that we are here to help them with what they’re doing wrong. Cracking the shits over some decisions, debatable whether poor or not, is no way to improve a game nor have the community on your side.

      • Blambaby 04.02.12 at 23:05

        Thumbs up. I love BF3 and only want to see it get better. In regards to the FAMAS and USAS-12 w Frag; I took on FAMAS players with the F2000 no problem; I took on the USAS -12 players by using a USAS -12, no problem. I took on grammar and lost.

      • evilblakdarknes 05.28.12 at 01:05

        its not the players job to help them, these idiots should now better. i’m here to moan and complain. when they get it right i’ll shut up!

  • Urzu S3V3N 03.30.12 at 22:15

    KYKY132: Exactly!

  • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:11

    My redesign of frag rounds:
    • If an enemy receives impact damage, they will not receive splash damage (wow, did I just fix the entire imba design of the current frag rounds?) Shooting directly at someone is less effective than aiming at a surface near them.
    • Shooting at someone in your face will give them impact damage and give you splash damage, killing you before them.
    • The design of this ammunition should promote smart game play as opposed to running and gunning; you want to give the enemies maximum exposure to the splash while still remaining behind cover, and out of splash range, yourself.
    • Single projectile, not a pellet spread like how it currently is.

    Read more @
    http://tehrawt.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/bf3-shotgun-ammo-redesign.html

    • Urzu S3V3N 03.30.12 at 22:14

      LIKE! Only thing I would like is that the ammo does less damage but significant suppression effects. Just like the description of the ammo in game indicates.

      ’12g Frag rounds are not terribly damaging but offer significant suppression’

      • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:35

        Don’t really want them to be an ineffective weapon, though. Militaries don’t send their troops out with none but harsh language to intimidate their foes. Not to digress, but I personally disagree with the whole suppression mechanic; it’s overpowered and unnecessary. If it’s worth anything, I think they should make it a server option and let those who hate it filter it out. That, or make it hardcore-only, which would lead me to never playing hardcore, ever.

        To construct upon your comment, however.. Perhaps they should make the frag rounds practically ineffective as a combat weapon, and make it do extreme suppression, perhaps more than what is currently in the game; make it so if you’re suppressing someone with frag rounds that they will have less than sniper-noscope accuracy for the better part of 5 seconds after the last frag round has hit nearby. This would make it an effective tool for use in proper clan matches, and perhaps a necessary inclusion for every decent squad. That said, though, aren’t LMGs meant to be the suppression weapons of the game?

        I think they ought to change the description of frag rounds. ;)

  • Gigers 03.30.12 at 22:04

    Cool story thanks for nerfing it. Where is the patch for the 360?

  • Urzu S3V3N 03.30.12 at 22:02

    To say that frag rounds pre-patch were only useful at close range is flawed. When my friends and I tested what they could do in a live game situation, we were all able to effectively snipe with the frag rounds and kill in 1/2 hits.

    Unfortunately being an XBOX user we dont have the patch yet but from what I have seen on livestreams and youtube. The patch seemed to have fixed the USAS issue but we’ll see when I can test it myself.

    In response to KYKY132, there is no small arms armour piercing round that would EVER be able to go through an MBT’s armor. Even the .50 unless you put 10+ rounds in the exact same hole.

    The next big issue is MAV riding, please fix it dice!

    • KYKY132 03.30.12 at 22:05

      I meant to give like the sniper class them so that they could help hold back such vehicles such as the LAV, or at least they could do what they did in BFBC2 and make a dart that can be fired that would tag the vehicle.

      • Urzu S3V3N 03.30.12 at 22:08

        Giving a sniper the ability to harass a tank, other than laser designation would be ridiculous . I do agree that recon should get rid of the soflam and have a handheld laser device but that would be the extent of it. Tanks should be left to the air support and engineers!

        • Urzu S3V3N 03.30.12 at 22:09

          Oh, and the dart gun imho was ‘ok’ but I much preferr laser designation.

          • KYKY132 03.30.12 at 22:10

            Ok so like a pistol that does laser designation? I actually like the sound of that.

          • KYKY132 03.30.12 at 22:13

            Also make it where you show up on the mini map when you do it as if you were shooting so you wouldn’t be able to camp all day and get points.

  • mdm1234567890 03.30.12 at 22:00

    The USAS ,and the tanks for that matter was nerfed too much. I used the USAS to get my 1000 kills with it and then retired it, so I’m not crying about,”my gun”. The people in this community are FUBAR. That’s all. Why would you nerf the USAS when it only accounts for 2% overall kills? And that is an average for all three platforms put together. People are just crying because all this time, they thought they were soooooo good, but couldn’t adapt to it. Asfar as the tanks go, they are too weak and this is coming from someone who does not use the tanks very often. I mean, claymores? Really? Come on DICE, use your heads on this and stop listening to all these crying kids and put a fix, a good fix, to the game once and for all.

    • mdm1234567890 03.30.12 at 22:02

      Oh, and fix the hardcore servers. There’s nothing epic about the epic servers.

      • KYKY132 03.30.12 at 22:03

        I agree maybe add something like a point bonus for playing on hardcore.

  • KYKY132 03.30.12 at 21:56

    So here is a thought that I have had for a while. What about armor piercing rounds? For instance. I myself hate it when a tank rapes my spawn point. I hate it and then the thought came to me. Why cant there be armor piercing rounds? Effective for close range vehicle attacks. Not a weapon to destroy the tank but to go through the metal and kill the driver? But to keep this high powered ammunition from becoming a noobs choice, you only get a limited amount of rounds. Say 40. Whats your thoughts? Email me at sproulkyle@gmail.com if you will.

  • LH0SWALDSGH0ST 03.30.12 at 21:50

    “A FRAG round is a 19mm High Explosive round, making it of a similar caliber to the rounds fired by the cannons on the F-18!” Demize99 is comparing a small arms weapon to a cannon. This is not an apples to apples comparison. The M203 Grenade Launcher attachment for the M-4/M-16 shoots the same diameter round as a MK19 Grenade Launcher, and both deliver High Explosive Ordnance. However, it is a bad idea to shoot a MK19 round out of a M203 tube.
    In order to “balance” the USAS 12: add true accuracy, and limit the damage and suppression effect. Those players that are crying because of the Frag round fail to realize that this experimental round is designed to be shot into an open window and compromise the personnel inside said room. Further more a shot gun does not shoot random patterns. A question arises from Demize99′s statement, “The relatively random nature of pellet spread, or FRAG round accuracy, makes this especially difficult.” If this were true, there would be no use for any type of aiming device. Shot gun patterns can definitely be represented by a normal distribution bell curve for a given distance and caliber.
    The MAV “elevator”: There is some concern about the logic that allows the thought process that a remotely operated observation post could effectively lift a full sized man into the air. This is a machine that moderately lifts itself into the air. The visual design is a bumblebee. It has no aerodynamic viability, and would not be as nimble as the game allows. The real world machines that the MAV is imitating still rely on aerodynamic factors to achieve lift, and grant users the intelligence capabilities necessary for the battlefield. These platforms are too small to lift little more than than their own payloads of energy and the surveillance equipment. Those who use the recon class, and the mav, to reach areas of seclusion are not necessarily cheating, but it is a cheap tactic.
    The MAV “Weapon”: Again these machines could not function as a killing weapon and return to the battlefield unscathed. The real world devices that are the inspiration for the MAV readily shatter into itty bitty bits when a proper landing is not performed. Use your device as a weapon? Fine but it sustains impact damage in the same manner that the “Jeeps” suffer when rammed into solid objects, i.e. large rocks, solid walls, tanks and other vehicles.

    • TheTopMostDog 03.30.12 at 22:51

      +Reps. Well written, mature and knowledgeable. Decent opinions, too.

  • FAE-XILUN 03.30.12 at 21:43

    El problema llego que la gente al llevar usas12 no disparan apuntando, lo hacen al bulto, no le ponen intencion, esto hacia poco juego limpio y el malestar era normal,ahora aun estoy mirando las armas pero en general me parece que estan mucho mas compensadas.solo os queda resolver el tema del LAG en los SERVIDORES, pasaba algo parecido en bad company 2, cuando los rusos se unian se relentizabna las partidas.gracias y a seguir asi!!!!

  • J_A_S_O_N_123 03.30.12 at 21:28

    FRAG rounds serve no purpose in the game and no matter how much they are weakened people will still use them and people will still hate them, and so I don’t see why they are not simply removed from the game

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:35

      irrelivent now, I now see frag rounds just as much as any other shotgun ammunition, unlike before, this means that less peopel use it, and it is now on a balanced scale with all other shotgun ammunitions. nuff said.

    • evilblakdarknes 05.28.12 at 01:18

      if you remove frag rounds you mite as well remove snipers and jets.

  • Ajax057 03.30.12 at 20:56

    DICE, people will always bitch about everything like backstab709 here, the MAV elevator is annoying yes, but 95% of the people that go up there cant hit anything. Also, the USAS with frag rounds is frustrating, but any good player can adapt to his enemies and overcome them. People that only want to use one class and one or two weapons are the people we see whining here. I think the game is amazing and i love playing it. I have no complaints about weapons or gameplay. there are some spots that need to be smoothened out, that will come with time. And i am extremely happy to say you have crushed MW3 nd every other CoD game. I hope you do the same in the future. However, i have never had so many issues connecting with friends. I dont know if the servers were having issues, but i can assure you, it was not my connection or my friends. ITs impossible for all four of us to make a squad and get into a game all the way or if we do to get on the same team. If the connection were to be fixed, then i would have nothing even remotely negative to say about BF3. Again, great job.

    • Hipsta Kitty 03.30.12 at 20:59

      Well said.

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:20

      true, but, DICE accomplished all I could hope for, the USAS is now used as much as any other ashotgun ammo, pre-patch, I only saw frag rounds used, unless the person didnt have them unlocked, now i see frag’s just as much as a USAS spewing out slugs O_o in the end, perfectly fine with me, and no i didnt bitch about it, yes i thought it was majorly overused, but when going to war, do you really expect to see an army of insurgents ALL with full auto shotguns and frag rounds? no. and yes, back in november, I went through extensive training with my clan at that time, to train me and several others to be precise anti-USAS infantry, which mostly involved my assault M416(luckily no changes to it in patch), reviving many people, and using M39 EMR cqc boosted, along with an m249 when they were swarming little buggers.

  • darkstar4584 03.30.12 at 20:54

    so your telling me that a engineer can lay down 6 AT mines and when he dies they will stay there but when i place 2 claymores and i die the disappear how is that balanced PLEASE DICE change that back thats all i ask

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:34

      perfectly balanced, AT mines dont kill people obviously, and the thing is, many “good” tankers, like me, make use of thermal to destroy mines, mines are simply free points to us, we dont care what happens with them. and a bunch of claymores, this coudl not happen due to balance issues, as if they stayed there, and than you spawned as a recon, this would practically encourage camping, which is specifically why they didnt give anti-personal mines to recon. than you have COD, where there are “campers” left and ruight huddled in corners with large .50 cal’s and claymores all around them.

  • Backstab709 03.30.12 at 20:47

    All you scrubs still crying about USAS:
    What about people abusing MAV? That hasn’t been fixed I see people going under OP metro all the time, if I were to report them everytime I saw one, I wouldn’t be able to play my game.
    There’s SOOOOOO MUCH still wrong with the game’s basic mechanics on some level/shape/form.
    Matchmaking is a complete farce unless you’re playing by yourself, I still can’t hop over some terrain using the jump animation.
    Claymores are virtually useless, I think if I can lay 3 down behind a tank and blow them up that the tank should be destroyed, or any vehicle with a certain amount that comes within proximity.
    There’s a lot of small things you need to fix DICE before you move onto a new map pack like you already are once you finish up close quarters.

    If you guys want this game to be good, you can’t just slap shit together and port it from PC to console.
    Too late now though, I’ve already lost faith in BF3 and many other people by the minute.

    • Hipsta Kitty 03.30.12 at 20:57

      3 Claymores to blow up an M1A1 Abram? Claymores are directional, shaped charges that act as a shot gun blast not meant for any thing but soft targets even 20 lined up. its not an EFP or RKG9.

      • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:31

        claymores are direction, and filled with specifically anti-infantry pellets, a claymore is the equivilant of a shotgun with a small very small pack of explsoive residue in it. therefore, unless you can suddenly kill a tank from 4 buckshot rounds, than you cant even hurt a tank, your wildest dreams would barely include damaging the tracks of a tank. in short, this guy is very deluded, and extreamly crazy for putting his own “thoughts” down here, without any real world to back them up

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:27

      a game is ment to be a game, not to be some extreamly realistic thing, the more people that go down there, the less people to shot at you, as it is very ineffective to use MAV elevators or drops, for anything except enjoying the view, the messing with the people who are up there from the other team. I was trained quite thouroughly as anti-USAS infantry, involving using standard breaching tactics, to unroute them. so please, be quiet. and oh yea, thats right, a claymore(god cant spell), which is full of ANTI-infantry pellets, those pellets, about the size of a BB, will definently penetrate a tank, no they can barely penetrate a HMV.
      And aside from that, DICE has nothing else to fix in this game, EVERY SINGLE GAME OUT THERE HAS GLITCHES/BUGS, it is absolutely unavoidable, I know from experience as a beta tester for square enix. so please, will you quit complaining, if you were playing cod, this patch would have been considered a costing DLC, as it added, private servers, and other such thing, and changed many things. they produced a game, you paid for that game, the bug fixes, and glitch fixes, and balance fixes, are simply COURTESY, so please, show some of your own, and leave these fantastic programmers, ALONE, if you cant congratulate them on a good job.

  • VincenteValmori 03.30.12 at 20:34

    Eh, man, Im not too worried about frag rounds. I play on 360 (mostly metro) and like Alan said I get killed maybe 1/25x by the USAS. Perhaps a little more but not much really. The trick is, Aim around corners dont run or spray because chances are the USAS user is cocky and just runs around corners thinking he can kill whatevers around them instantly. But then there you are meeting him/her with a wall of lead.

  • Vatndal 03.30.12 at 20:31

    I never comment anything, ever! But I just have to say to all you F***** whiners that whine all the time and then whine a little more about every small detail in the game: Go play something else, you’re not good enough to play anyway.

    USAS-12 w/frag: Yes I have died from it many times, but if you’re a SMART and a GOOD player you just work around it! A faster gun will kill the uses guy before he even knew you where there.

    RENT A SERVER: OMG, I just have to say OMG. You can’t even afford a tiny few $ for a REAL server that is standing somewhere being operated and maintained and also using power.. Only since you bought this game doesn’t give you the right to have EVERYTHING dice makes for free. “Would you like a hot dish and a beer with that server maybe?”

    AND TO EVERY OTHER WHINE: You guys are so busy whining you can’t even see all the good things anymore. It’s a great game so stop whining and be happy with it, if not, just go play cod or minecraft, I bet you love that! HEY, GO WHINE ABOUT MINECRAFTS GRAPHICS WILL YOU??!!

    Great game DICE!

    • gulfrider 03.30.12 at 20:49

      YOU SEEM TO TAKE MY POST ALMOST PERSONAL WITH YOUR USE OF EXPLETIVES,DO YOU REALLY FEEL SO ANGRY ABOUT A POST THAT YOU TAKE AS IF IT WERE A REMARK ON YOU. I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE A STEP AWAY FOR A MOMENT AND REALLY READ MY POST AS IT WAS MADE AS GAMERS FEED BACK TO THE DEVELOPER AND NOT YOU BUT IF YOU FEEL SO INSULTED THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST STOP PLAYING THIS GAME AND SEEK A THERAPIST. BY THE WAY I MADE OVER $80,000 DOLLARS LAST YEAR ( I’M THE CAPTAIN OF A SHRIMP BOAT) SO NOW WHEN YOU SPEAK TO ME YOU WILL BE BETTER INFORMED BEFORE YOU REPLY TO A COMMENT I POST.OH YA AND I’M A 40 YEAR OLD MAN WHO HAS CHILDREN YOUR AGE SO I’M NO KIDDIE.

      • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:36

        you mad bro, noone likes to read all caps, as we arent all 5 years old like you.

      • F1leUrC0mplaint 03.30.12 at 22:42

        looolllllllll hes married so he gets no sex that’s why he’s pissed

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:39

      very well said, and yes, all those damn people saying – “we should get the servers free!!” – because oh yea, thats right, noone maintains those servers, noones powers those servers, EA didnt buy those servers. but then again, you guys bought the game, your entitled to a 5,000$ server and all the stuff needed to keep it up…. Keep it up, hope to see you on the battlefield(btw, I find dice did accomplish what I wanted, which is balance, I now see frag ammo as much as ANY other shotgun ammom, this means their now all equilally used, this is very good, and now, i say job well done)

  • R3DT1D3 03.30.12 at 20:18

    See “FRAG rounds would allow players with shot guns a round with limited combat effectiveness but the capability to harass and suppress opponents at longer distances” is all well and good but that’s not how it worked at launch.

    USAS w/frags splash DAMAGE is silly. It rewards players who can’t aim and matching them with frag rounds makes it the most forgiving CQB weapon in the game. No other weapon can do rapid splash damage and still hit effectively from the hip.

    Furthermore there’s almost no skill ceiling to using this setup other than positioning (which almost every weapon requires anyways). It’s like playing Pyro in TF2, you just gotta get close and hold W+M1 and try to live through the experience. This degrades the game and gives an easy out to terrible players.

  • Orocairion 03.30.12 at 20:17

    You must be new to the BF franchise and a console kiddie at that. BF has always had rent-a-server since the day of BF1942, at least on the PC. Maybe you should stick to COD anyway. We have to many Cawadoody kids as it is already.

    • gulfrider 03.30.12 at 20:31

      THAT’S FINE THAT IT’S A RENT A SERVER BUT IF YOU READ THE FIRST LINE OF MY POST IT SAYS QUICK JOIN OPTION WITH BASIC GAME MODES(I.E. SETTINGS) AND RENT- A -SERVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE SERVER BROWSER.AND AS FOR ALL YOUR DUMB REMARKS ABOUT CONSOLE KIDDIE, CALL OF DUTY BLAH,BLAH, GROW THE FUCK UP. YOU TALKING LIKE YOUR SOMEBODY BUT PEOPLE WHO FEEL THE NEED TO MAKE CHILDISH REMARKS SUCH AS YOU ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM AND ARE LOOKING FOR ATTENTION. SO GO FIND ANOTHER POST TO FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS A LOWER I.Q.

      • F1leUrC0mplaint 03.30.12 at 22:44

        why go find another forum with low IQ when we got you here??

    • monarchco 03.30.12 at 21:46

      lol this guy is such a noob, it doesnt reward anyone, it rewards skill, as I find with a good trigger finger, I can take down anyone at any range(excluding small gun vs. large vehicle), as I have killed many many USAS users point blank with my m416 point blank pre-patch, and in the end, DICE has accomplished all I coudl hope for, which is balance, I now exceptionally find that frag round are used just as much as ALL other shotgun ammo types, fantastic, plus shotguns I find as used as any other weapon now, for granted im now going up against the pewpew spew spew gun(pp19 – something the cod players brought with them), but in shrot fantastic job, wasnt complaining in the first place, didnt see any need for change, but now im actually going to stay ingame. and its really sad, I got BF3 at launch for PS3, since i didnt think my PC could handle it(had played ALL previous BF games on home console when possible, even played fantastic codename eagleback in 1996 :) than I bought my new gaming PC in dec, now wish I had gotten it for PC, as ive always been part of the modding community, for games :l good luck to you, and hope to see ya on the battlefield sometime soon :D

  • RUBBERDUCKY0UT 03.30.12 at 20:16

    BrotherPappy you are a little bitch… the mav elevator is a great idea a sniper can not snipe on the ground. yes it is possible but you cant see an do overwatch on the pavement you need a big building. Being able to use the mav is so that snipers can snipe without the worry of getting knifed every fucking game trust me i would know. i have over 600 dog tags taken my idiots most of them sniping. The choice to be able to get on a rooftop with the only worry of getting sniped or shot at. Now unless bf3 gives the sniper the claymore. The snipers will need the mav if your gonna bitch about the mav go to COD that game takes no skill.bf3 is all about team work from the medic to the sniper. the team must work togeather how simply by everyone doing their job. a sniper will help detemine who wins who loses….. so the mav is needed to be able to see around the map. Only to help his fellow teammates win. now before you call me a guy without any luck or a cod player or a little kid….. im 21 an i dont play cod i refuse to play cod or to even act like i play that game…… so BrotherPappy stop your bitching an just play the damn game if you dont like it leave the game shit happens. you bitch bout the mav but what bout the people who do nothing but drive tanks, helis, jets, put c4 like i do on the jeeps…… fyi i dont do tanks

    • Orocairion 03.30.12 at 20:21

      Camping on the buildings of Gulf of Oman like a little turd is no team play at all. It just makes you a useless. If you don’t want the risk of getting knife, don’t camp. You lot are annoying enough as it is when you take a loaded helicopters and baill out of it without telling anybody killing them all, just so you can sit on your moronic arse on that crane or building.

    • Ajax057 03.30.12 at 20:45

      First of, anyone who thinks the game depends on the sniper is an idiot. Snipers are camping pussies who only care about their K/D and that my friend is why u love the MAV. The players that decide the game are the ones down on the front line defending the flag/m-com or blowing the shit up. All you do is lay on your ass and hope your k/d is what you want at the end of the round. The reason you get stabbed??? because you suck, the recon class has the motion detector for a reason. So yes, keep using the MAV elevator while you can, btw they arent taking it out cuz people get killed from these noobs that hide on buildings. theyre taking it out cuz u all suck at contributing to the team.

      • RAWDIEHL 03.30.12 at 20:58

        Well said man.

      • llKR470Sll 03.30.12 at 21:03

        Really, really well said! Can’t disagree with any of your words.

      • buzzthrillr 03.30.12 at 21:49

        Oh ajax….you’d just be another headshot victim…and while I was up on some building just sitting on my ass worrying about my K/D I’d wipe my ass with the squad swipe ribbons and surveillance ribbons I had….I’m not gonna defending all snipers who just sit and watch…I’m not one of those snipers, I’m the one that’s pissing you off from too way too far away, tagging enemies, talking to my team and popping heads with my L96 like they were pimples … snipers need to be able to get on top of buildings, they need to be up high to do there job right, anyone who says snipers don’t play an important roll in the game has a low IQ and needs a helmet and bib. Dice needs to put in ladders or stairways on tall buildings, at least that way snipers don’t have to MAV up and a skilled, smart player who’s tired of being sniped can have a shot at going up there and taking him out, and that would be fair and people could stop bitching about people MAV-ing onto buildings.

      • evilblakdarknes 05.28.12 at 01:50

        i would say camping is part of the game. all you can do is except it cause i don’t see it changing in any first person shooter. your complaint is like a boxer complaining about getting hit in the head to much ha ha

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